I know that Janis can answer me a lot better, but I was wondering about some features of the engine: What kind of models defs does Vavoom use? md2? If so, you mean we could make a model just like for Quake 2 or Heretic 2 and then put it into the engine? Can the player's weapons be made in 3d? What about the scripts? Do they work just like in Hexen, with ACS? What new possibilities can a 3d world bring along? I'm just curious...

Yes the models are MD2s so I guess we could make them like for quake 2 or heretic 2. And I think the weapons can also be 3D. You can still use ACS scripts in the maps. I'll let Rambo or Janis talk about the 3D world stuff. Oh and I find programming in Vavoom easyer than in doomsday apart from compiling.

I want to know which is the main difference into programming one and the other?? <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

Main difference in the programming is that Janis have reorganised most of it so things are easyer to find, oh and its like UnrealScript which is what I started programming with.

That's cool Moose, thanks a bunch. Oh but there's one more thig: how about making maps? Which program should be used?

I think that Wadauthor can be used to make Vavoom maps, just download the WCF files from the page to make Wadauthor understand the new things implemented with it.

Yer Firebrand is right about wadauthor.

The MD2 models we use in SE (and some of them already in KMOD) were all converted from Heretic II and Hexen II. They work the same with our engine, Vavoom, or Doomsday. Player weapons can be made as 3D objects, I'm not sure whether Vavoom has support for it or not, but it could be implemented, technically there is no prob with it. Vavoom Hexen supports Hexen ACS plus VavoomC, a way more advanced scripting language. New possibilities of a 3D world? You really ask? Here a list of things you can't do in SE because of engine limitations: - walk up a hill - enter the tomb under a small mound - enter an inn, walk up the stairs to a gallery that's hanging over the common room - see 2 houses besides each other, one is significantly higher than the other, but you can enter both - jump into a small stream that wants to drag you away as you stand knee-high in water - swim underwater - go into a town hall, go into an office, then get out, walk up the stairs to the next level, and go into an office that's above the previous one - walk around in a barren wasteland and don't see anything but the earth under your feet and the sky touching the horizon far away (i.e. no walls all around, like even in most of today's 3D games) ..the list could go on forever but I think you already got the picture. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Yes, there is a lot Vavoom can't do neither and today's 3D engines can, but Vavoom has the most imortant basic features that allow you to build a world, however crude and low-resolution compared to Unreal II or DOOM 3, a world that allows you to immerse into and feel like moving in a real world. MRJ and EB have made a superior effort with Heretic and Hexen maps to use the engine to its limits but there's only so much you can do with the DOOM engine with its original form - and Doomsday is, as far as 3D architecture goes, basically stuck on the same level. Vavoom goes up to about Quake I level architecture which might sound little but if you ever played the Egypt maps of Hexen II, you'll realize 3D engines didn't evolve that much since Quake I in this particular instance. Another thing is developer support... I've been in touch many times with skyJake since mid-2000 and as a summary of all his help, just visualize a tiny pile of dog shit. That's what his help to us, one of the most important Doomsday mods, was worth in all these years. Whenever I asked him, he either didn't bother to answer, brushed me off, or told me things like "implemented in Doomsday 1.x" - too bad Doomsday 0.9x and 1.x is about as compatible as Doomsday and Vavoom. Take Janis on the other hand... even before we knew each other very well, and before I even decided to use Vavoom for any project, he answered questions, what's more he implemented my suggestions/requests as regular Vavoom features! Just as an example, since 1.10 or so, in any Vavom version you can just remove the outside wall of a sector that has a SKY texture as ceiling, and the skybox will kick in, enabling exactly the endless plains feeling I mentioned above. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Vavoom is a really cool port, I think that most of the limitations it has can be override and we can create more complex stuff with it, I'm impatient to see what we could do with it (I'm just amazed by the sloped on Vavoom!! that I hope that we can really make something cool with it!!).

It's awesome. I never thought the engine would be as rich as Quake's 1 one. In fact, I somehow misunderstood things and I didn't even know we would use vavoon for SP. <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> It is great to know that all these possibilities exist, and could be explored by us. Yet there are still some things that bug me: The ACS scripting and the VavoonC seem two powerful tools for editing scripts, which would make maps much more enjoyable than just go in and kill eveybody. But man, they are complicated! As for what I have seen, only Ichor and Janis have a deep knowledge about them, and if we can't get any mapper, how will the scripts be implemented? What about 3d modellers? Do you have anyone in sight?

Mago: It's spelled Vavoom with an M at the end. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> As for TSP, I was contacted by a mapper some weeks ago who signed up for TSP mapping, I'm still waiting for his reply to my last mail. 3D modelers: while chances are low we'll get an own one, for the world's objects there is quite some stuff in Heretic II and Hexen II we already ported (and unlike with Doomsday, with Vavoom you can build things in the engine itself, like simple tables and benches). And there are a couple of modelers re-creating the original Heretic and Hexen monsters and items in 3D. While they are doing this for Doomsday, the models are MD2 all the same and all it needs for using them in Vavoom is a custom definition file (which it'd need for using it in our Doomsday build we use for SE and KMOD, since Doomsday isn't compatible even with itself).

Hmmm... Maybe the main prob will be mappers, because I still see lots of movement on Q2 scenary, and it's very likely some modeller would like to help. Hey, Moose said that WadAuthor is the map editor of Vavoom too, but I don't see how that program can create complex 3d maps. For instance, how does one create a hill? By defining several sector within each other, with different sizes (and hoping the engine will "fill" the gap between one outline and the next one)? What about 3d objects higher from the ground, like a hall that goes, in the air, from one building to another, or sector above sectors? What about 3d objects, like bridges? They should be done by another prog and then placed in the map? What about not using light effects and high resolution textures/skins to make the mod faster?

I suggest you download the Vavoom demo map for Hexen and check it out in WadAuthor. Vavoom also has its own dedicated forums at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forums.vavoom-engine.com">http://forums.vavoom-engine.com</a><!-- m -->

Hi!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I'm back and now from a different location. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> And i'm telling ya- this place ROCKS! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> A lots of good stuff in this topic. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> One of the questions not answered was about extra mapping features. Well, they are done using some thricks with line special types and things. Vavoom comes with docs on this and it's not that complicated. See ya!

Hi there Janis, glad to hear from you at last! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Hey I've never seen you so happy, I'm glad for you!

Mago has a point you do seem kinda happy. Anyways could you recommend a way of doing the quest giving.... (actually I'll start a new topic.)

Thanks! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> My proposal on quests system is on that other topic.